Podcast
March 28, 2025
Episode 34: Structuring Goals & Thriving with Neurodivergence
Struggling to juggle 37 P1’s at once? Ashley Vonella breaks down goal-setting and how to thrive in RevOps - because realistic goals > meltdown mode.
In this episode, co-host Camela Thompson sits down with Peter Kirk, Founder of Smooth Operator. Peter has helped organizations like Reddit and MongoDB refine their Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) to make better, data-driven go-to-market decisions.
Together, they tackle a crucial but often misunderstood topic defining and refining your ICP so that it actually drives revenue. From common mistakes to key data signals, this episode is packed with insights to help your team optimize its targeting, sales strategy, and customer success efforts.
Many companies have a general idea of their best-fit customers - dream clients like Apple or Google are easy to identify. But the real challenge lies in defining the gray area - where do you draw the line between a strong-fit customer and a poor-fit one?
"Most teams agree on who their dream customer is and who definitely isn’t a fit. But the challenge is defining everything in between - what attributes truly make a company a great fit versus just a ‘maybe?’” — Peter Kirk
🛑 Common ICP Pitfalls:
💡 Pro Tip:
If you haven’t updated your ICP since 2022, you’re probably leaving money on the table. Economic shifts and evolving customer needs mean it's time to revisit your ICP regularly - at least every six months. For guidance on this process, check out the ICP Data Management Checklist.
A common misconception is that big brands always mean big wins. But Peter explains that even the biggest companies need to revisit their ICP over time.
When Peter worked at Lucid Software, they launched two new products with completely different target customers. This shifted who they defined as their ICP, requiring new marketing and sales strategies.
📌 Key ICP Lesson:
Your ICP should change as your product and company evolve. If your revenue teams aren’t regularly discussing who converts best and why, you risk missing out on higher-converting segments.
“The ICP you used at $1M ARR is not the same one you should use at $100M ARR.” – Peter Kirk
For more insights on adapting your ICP across your go-to-market strategy, explore Finding and Unleashing the Power of Your ICP Across GTM.
Peter breaks down a structured approach to defining ICP using both objective and subjective inputs:
🔹 Analyze Your Best Customers:
🔹 Study Churned Accounts:
🔹 Evaluate Closed-Won vs. Closed-Lost Deals:
🔹 Talk to Customers AND Internal Teams:
💡 Pro Tip:
If you’re only relying on CRM data but not talking to your sales and CS teams, you’re missing critical insights about what makes a great-fit customer.
For a deeper dive into leveraging data for your ICP, read 4 Ways RevOps Pros Can Excel in a Downturn.
Instead of just defining an Ideal Customer Profile (ICP), Peter encourages companies to also define:
✅ Acceptable Customer Profile (ACP): Customers who may not be a perfect fit but are still profitable
🚫 Unacceptable Customer Profile (UCP): Customers who are expensive to support, churn quickly, or create operational nightmares
"Not every customer will be ideal, but some are still worth bringing on. Others? Not so much. You need to define both to keep your pipeline clean." – Peter Kirk
For strategies on identifying and managing different customer profiles, see How To Dodge Death by Lead Score.
Your ICP shouldn’t just be a marketing tool - it should influence your entire go-to-market strategy:
✔ Marketing: Use it to refine ad targeting and messaging
✔ Sales: Equip reps with clear scoring criteria to prioritize the right leads
✔ Customer Success: Identify which accounts are primed for expansion vs. churn risks
📌 Example:
If an account hits a certain usage milestone (like adding a key integration), that might be a strong expansion signal—triggering an automatic notification for CSMs to start an upsell conversation.
“Expansion is the easiest way to grow revenue. If you’re not layering in ICP signals to find expansion opportunities, you’re missing out.” — Peter Kirk
For a comprehensive roadmap on integrating ICP into your GTM strategy, watch Winning with RevOps and ABM: A Roadmap for Success.
🚨 Red Flags Your ICP Isn’t Aligned Across Teams:
1️⃣ Set up regular feedback loops between sales, marketing, and CS
2️⃣ Track conversion rates at every stage (MQL → SQL → Opp → Closed-Won)
3️⃣ Align on the 5 key ICP attributes and ensure everyone uses them consistently
For further guidance on aligning teams around a shared ICP and revenue strategy, read How Operationally Mature Are You?
✔ Your ICP should evolve over time - set a 6-month review cadence
✔ Go beyond demographics - analyze behaviors and product usage
✔ Listen to your front-line teams - they know what actually converts
✔ Define acceptable vs. unacceptable customers to avoid pipeline bloat
✔ Incorporate ICP signals into expansion strategies, not just acquisition
ICP isn’t just a marketing checkbox - it’s the foundation for a high-performing go-to-market motion.
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to connect with Peter Kirk on LinkedIn or check out his new agency, Smooth Operator (smoothoperator.cc).
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